Karma, Yoga, and New Age Practices in the Church

Karma, yoga, angel numbers, “good vibes,” manifesting, crystals, and “the universe” are everywhere in our culture, but are these New Age practices compatible with following Jesus, or are they quietly reshaping the church? 

In this episode of Rethink Revive, David Leake and Jordan Kolarik unpack the dangers of syncretism, how Hindu and New Age ideas slip into Christian language, and how to biblically “test the spirits.” 

If you’ve ever wondered whether things like karma, yoga, energy, frequencies, and manifestation are harmless or spiritually harmful, this conversation will help you discern what leads to freedom in Christ and what leads to deception.

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Rethink Revive is a podcast where we carry on Pastor Jeff Leake’s legacy by having honest conversations about faith, leadership, grief, and navigating change in a rapidly shifting world. 

Whether we’re addressing cultural trends, spiritual questions, or everyday challenges of faith, our goal is simple: to help you think deeply, live faithfully, and experience renewal in God’s presence. Formerly known as the Allison Park Leadership Podcast.

Transcript

Dave Leake: 0:00

On today's podcast, we're talking about karma, yoga, and new age practices in the church. Did you know that we live in a world that is super affected by new age beliefs, by Hinduism, by Buddhism? It's in the phrases we use all the time. Vibes actually means good vibrations. We talk about the universe, everything happens for a reason-good and bad karma-but all these things are actually maybe incompatible with Christianity. So we we need to be very careful to discern, know what's harmful, know what might be good, and where we want to really, really steer clear from. If you're interested in this, we're going to dive into all this and more. So stay tuned. Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome to the Rethink Revive podcast, where we take a second look at social and spiritual issues. I'm your host, David Leake, and I'm joined today by my recurring guest, best friend Jordan Calaric. Give it up for Jordan! Come

Unknown: 0:55

on, baby! You brought me back. I couldn't have done that bad if you brought me back.

Dave Leake: 1:00

He's back. He's back by popular demand. Everybody who's ever listened to this podcast all requested that I bring Jordan back, and so I don't think that's real. Animus vote, but I'm happy to

Unknown: 1:13

be back regardless.

Dave Leake: 1:14

If you don't know who Jordan is, Jordan and I grew up together. I mean, literally as little kids, the same home church, went to college together, lived in the same house when we were single, were in each other's weddings, and now Jordan is the director over University of Pittsburgh Kay Alpha Student Ministries.

Unknown: 1:32

Yep,

Dave Leake: 1:33

he also was on staff for a long time at Allison Park Church. I'm now here in Florida, in the greater Jacksonville area, about to plant Salt Church, and we do this podcast, and so excited to get into it. Jordan, any thoughts before we start?

Unknown: 1:46

I, although we grew up together, I went to youth group together, went to college together. It should be noted that Dave is older than me. He is officially Elder Unk, and I'm the young, hip width it vert. You know, I I just think they need to know that Dave that you are yeah older.

Dave Leake: 2:01

Jordan Jordan is in fact much younger than he looks. So

Unknown: 2:09

correct.

Dave Leake: 2:10

He is a he is a fresh six weeks younger than me. So

Unknown: 2:16

it's true. But for those six weeks, wow, it's powerful.

Dave Leake: 2:22

It is. It is a huge difference. Father time over here with I don't know what you want to call yourself

Unknown: 2:29

either. Let's just get into it.

Dave Leake: 2:31

All right. Oh, what a way to start. Okay. Let's get into it. Okay. Today we're going to be talking about karma, yoga, and New Age practices in the church.

Unknown: 2:43

Wow! All right, fun.

Dave Leake: 2:46

Yes, it is. Something that we do, you know, on the Rethink Revive podcast is we, you know, we say this. We take a second look at social and spiritual issues. Sometimes we overlook things, and we just kind of go based on gut instinct or feel, especially when it comes to our belief about the world, or God, or the Bible, or all the above, and we live in a ever increasingly spiritual America. Yes, meaning people are more and more thinking about the spiritual world. They're thinking about life after death. They're thinking about what happens in the unseen world, and there's a lot out there that can get mixed in with Christianity, or just things in general that, as Christians, we might want to be careful of. We want to take a

second look: 3:31

what is harmful, what's dangerous, what's fine, what's maybe tame. Doesn't really matter. And how should we think about all these things from a Christian perspective?

Unknown: 3:40

Hey, can can I jump in really quick? Just

Dave Leake: 3:42

please do.

Unknown: 3:43

From a perspective of I'm talking to a ton of Gen Z students at the university. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow! This is in some ways the easiest time ever to have conversations about Jesus with people because, yeah, like you mentioned, people are more open to spiritual conversations than ever before. I actually sort of anticipated people being like, "You keep that spirituality crap out of this school science. You know, that's like what I thought I would be met with. But honestly, that's not the case at all. Like everyone is sort of spiritual. Everyone's like, "Oh yeah, like I'm interested in talking about that, or I have some thoughts, or I consider myself spiritual. Like to be spiritual is not weird anymore. Like everyone sort of is, but I will also say, probably for an in-house conversation with people that identify with Jesus, that call themselves Christians, that like belong to a church, I think now is a dangerous time because so many people are adding to what they think spirituality should mean, and they're taking practices from other religious point of views, or not from the Bible, and just kind of slapping them inside the church. And it feels right, and it looks okay, and it's not that far off. And so you have people that that are greatly deceived, thinking they're practicing. But actually, delving into stuff that, as bluntly as I could say, it would be like in the occult. So it's a weird time because people are more spiritual than ever, but the church probably needs to be more vigilant than ever. Does that make any sense?

Dave Leake: 5:13

Absolutely, it does. Yeah, I would think that as as somebody that's on a you know a campus, a university campus, that you probably deal with this all the time, so yeah. We're did did you did you say the word syncretism yet? I don't know if you threw out that or not, but you could. I will. I did. Syncretism is this this thing that often happens with things like Christianity, where you're blending other worldviews, other religions, other theories of how things work in with Christianity, and oftentimes they're not compatible, but it happens all the same. And as Christians, it's very important that we make sure we are not sort of blending things together because that can create what we what we would call a false gospel. That can create things that pull us away from Jesus. Jesus was very specific about who he was and how he wanted to be understood, and he was very specific about what it means to follow him. And actually, he was so specific that he upset religious leaders, which is what led him to be crucified and die on the cross. And therefore, for us, we want to take Jesus at his terms. We want to we want to know what it means to follow him that way, and we want to filter out some of the bullcrap that comes in just of the world we live in and the culture.

Unknown: 6:26

And and I think I think okay, so I remember talking with a girl for the first time after one of our services. She loved the service. She loved the worship. Wow, that really spoke to me. She was using language that I thought she was in. Like I definitely thought that she understood Christianity. He might have been raised in a church or something. Like it just felt like she knew what she was talking about. And then she starts talking to me about like, and it's so crazy you said this because well, some of my angel numbers are blah blah blah. And I was like, what? So now I'm like in the middle of a conversation with this girl, and I'm like, control your face, control your face, control your face. Because I'm like, oh wow, wow, wow, wow, wow! This syncretism has happened where like you think that I am because I'm a Christian and Christians believe in angels. I'm all about angel numbers, and we can talk about that specifically later. But it's like I came to find out through that interaction. I was talking to people. I like literally needed to address that from the stage because, like, that is something that was popular and trending on TikTok. And they're like, "Oh yeah, that feels like it would fit with Jesus. And I think the temptation, though, is for people that are listening right now. If you're like, "Yeah, that also sounds crazy to me, what I would caution all of us with is that if we're not careful, the devil's like good at his job. So it's like, oh, who would ever think angel numbers has to like? It's very easy to think that this podcast probably applies to someone else, but not to me. But I would say the devil is good at his job, and he's very good at a little bit of a lie mixed with a lot of truth. You know, a little bit of yeast that would ruin, that would leaven the whole, unleavened the whole bread. So, so I, I guess I would just say to anyone listening to have an open heart and mind because there's a lot of ways that without realizing it, our culture is discipling and informing us, and we might need to do a good job at being like, yeah, that Jesus actually didn't say that. So, a caution to everyone, but yeah, it's it's prevalent right now, especially with the the slop that is your algorithm. You're going to get exposed to so many different thoughts and cultures online now than ever before.

Dave Leake: 8:34

Yep. Okay, so let me just read two scriptures that can frame the conversation for us. I'm going to read First Colossians two eight and here is what it says: See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. Let me read this again because I think that this is like the end of this. Especially, it says, "See to it that no one takes you captive. Yeah, you can be held prisoner by what hollow and deceptive philosophy. It sounds good. It sounds interesting. It sounds like gives you power or mastery over your world, or a way to improve yourself, or your home, or your family. But it says to it that no one takes you captive through deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition, not God, and the elemental spiritual forces of the world, the devil and his demons, rather than on Christ. So we want to filter through. We want to filter through the filter of freedom, which comes only through Jesus and not through other human traditions, practices, or understandings of the world that go that sort of circumvent the framework that Jesus laid out for us. Here's a second one. First John four one says this: "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God." As many false prophets have gone out into the world, there are other spirits besides Jesus. They are called demons.

Unknown: 10:10

No, literally, yes. And so, and so, when you have a spiritual experience, oftentimes that's all people need, or something resonates with them. It's like, oh, that must be true. Then, like after all, I felt this. After all, I had a powerful encounter with God. I like literally started to cry, or I like shook on the ground. Like you don't understand. I felt this, so therefore, we bypass everything else. Like we're automatically in, and that's that's scary because that means all the devil needs to do is give you some sort of you're smirking. I'm curious what you're thinking, but it's like all the devil, all the devil needs to do is like get you to have a feeling. Is that is it that you know like a tingle, a little emotion, and it's like gotcha? That's God. It's it's okay. It does say though to test the spirits, so it's like okay, I had an experience, I had an encounter, I had a feeling, I saw a piece of information online. This real connected with me. Maybe that's my problem. Maybe that's what do you think it looks like to if we're going to take scripture at its word. What does it look like to test the spirits, like just think about it, or like ask your pastor, because that's kind of circular, isn't it?

Dave Leake: 11:28

Are you asking me a question specifically? Yeah,

Unknown: 11:30

I'm literally about to

Dave Leake: 11:31

answer the question. Oh no, that would be cool

Unknown: 11:33

if I could do that. Here's my question and my own answer. But I, I, I'm like, wow, yeah. What, what do you think it looks like to test the spirits? Because some people would be like, I did test it. Like I I proved to myself that it's right. I don't know. What do you What do you think of that?

Dave Leake: 11:49

Yeah. Well, the two quick answers would be one, the Word of God, which is which is our our foundation for understanding the world. The Bible is the inspired Word of God. Everything we know about God, the spiritual world, who Jesus is, all comes from the Bible. It is not something that we need to reform. It's not outdated. We don't need to change it. We just take it for what it says because the Bible is our frame through which we view the world. Second thing is in First Corinthians chapter 12, one of the gifts the Holy Spirit gives to people is something called the discerning of spirits, spirits, which is as you get to know the Holy Spirit better and have this relationship with Him, He can give you this gift of where there is sort of a Holy Spirit-inspired intuition that helps us to understand what is of God and what's not. And frankly, the more you know the Bible, the better that your your discerning of spirits, senses empowered by the Holy Spirit, who is God. The the more quickly that goes off, the sharper it becomes. But I guess in general, we want to test everything. Does this align with with what the scripture says? And we want to pay special attention to a warning sign that might go off on the inside where the Holy Spirit speaks to us. Yes. Okay.

Unknown: 12:57

Okay. But but for a lot of these things, so we're talking about new way. What was the title again? Sorry, if you're watching Karma

Dave Leake: 13:03

Yoga and New Age practices in the church.

Unknown: 13:05

Yeah. Okay. So the thing is, if we're talking some things, the Bible does address, like they were in the first scripture you read, they were worshiping the elemental spirits, is what it says. That's literally, I'm about to start singing. That's earth, wind, fire, water. They were not cool in the gang, but they they were literally worshiping those things. And yeah, it's very clear, like scripturally, which is why it was written. Like, don't do that. But I think the the deceit of New Age is that it's often like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, don't worry, the Bible doesn't even talk about this. You just kind of missed this. Like, actually, this is what Jesus was doing when he was praying. He was actually meditating. Like what do you think he was doing in the wilderness? Or you know it's like these sneaky things that sort of come up, and or like oh our religious programming has taught us to bypass the body. You're not supposed to pray away your anxiety. Like your body's sending a signal, and so the more in tune you are with your body, and it's like, oh, okay, yeah, no, that actually sounds good. Like, well, God made my body, and slowly, if you're not careful, there it can take you to a place where you can either become your own God. There's secret knowledge that you can acquire. It's the one thing that you were missing that everyone needs. That's sort of the danger of New Age and all of these things. Is the branding is oh oh oh don't worry Jesus is chill with this because he just didn't address it or you just didn't know it yet. Does that make sense?

Dave Leake: 14:33

Sure, totally. Well, even like okay, I'll say one thing and then we'll start try to knock the bowling pins down one by one as they come up. Just one other comment: even what you just said, like meditation, sometimes it's just the change in what the language means. I mean, meditation is found all throughout Scripture. We're actually instructed to meditate on the Word of God, but we're not talking about Eastern New Age meditation, which is emptying yourself or. Finding your inner peace or connecting with the universe, but it's so easy when you live in a world that swims with other religious beliefs, like New Age, to read something or hear something the Scripture says and misunderstand the meaning of what the Bible means because we're we're having syncretism, we're mixing. We want to make sure we filter well.

Unknown: 15:22

Well, that's that's probably what also testing the spirits is, and just being discerning is going a little slow because a lot of times they're moving you along thoughts, and when you only hear it in I'm thinking the social media world, so it's like a confident person, well edited, and they're just moving you along a path where it's like we all know we're supposed to pray. Prayer is meditation. Here are some meditation practices, and you're like, right, right, right, right, right. You're just kind of going along, but like going slow is being like, wait, is that okay? To some extent, yes, but is emptying myself is feeling one with my body? Like, where does that lead me? Who's receiving the worship? Who am I meditating on? Myself or the person of Jesus Christ? So slowing it down and being like,"Does a a equal b? Does b lead to c? Because usually they're skipping things like a used car salesman. Like, right, right, right. You want the car? This is the car. Get on in. Drive it. Here you go. Sign right here. And the next thing you know, you're driving a lemon, and it will it will for a time help you and make you feel a certain way, but it will lead to destruction, you being away from God, or honestly, just as broken as before, and that's the thing that's scary.

Dave Leake: 16:34

I would say more broken. I think that's what it points to in Colossians two, where he says, "Season, no one no one takes you captive. Something that seems like it helps at first can actually lead you into bondage, and so we have to make sure we're filtering. So let's let's get into this. Let's start with karma. Karma is an interesting one because it is it is a a word from a different religion, but there is an echo of it in the Bible. Yeah, it's

Unknown: 17:00

just this, dude. Karma, sowing and reaping. It's the same, Dave. It really is the same. You know, you sow and then you reap and then karma. You put good things out into the world and they'll come back to you. So sweet. Let's move on. It's in the Bible. Well, let's

Dave Leake: 17:14

wait, wait.

Unknown: 17:16

No, of course we're not serious. That's blasphemy. Kick me off the podcast. But I think I think that's I think that's sort of how people that are especially new, a lot of people know karma maybe even before they understand the principle of sowing and reaping, at least from a worldly perspective.

Dave Leake: 17:29

Sure.

Unknown: 17:30

So so it's sort of like when they're hearing that they're like, oh yeah, it's just karma. I I have framework for that, but it's definitely different.

Dave Leake: 17:37

Yeah. So do you want to take a stab at talking through this, or do you want me to start?

Unknown: 17:41

You start.

Dave Leake: 17:42

Okay, so you can. Somebody may correct me because I I do not have a deep understanding of Hinduism, but the flyover from when I've studied this because we we had to study this in Bible college and I've read up as I've you know met Hindus is that karma is this the way the universe works in Hinduism that it actually isn't just sowing and reaping in terms of energy. It's but when you put good energy and good things out there, you're going to get it back. When you put out bad karma, it's going to come back to you. So much so that it's actually a part of their reincarnation cycle. That if you store up enough good karma, you can be reincarnated into a higher life form, but if you are doing bad things, you're sowing bad karma. Then you you know when you die, you are reincarnated as a lower life form, and it can kind of go up and down from there. But it's it's this cosmic sense of what I do earns me better, earns me worse things, and the practice is you want to make sure that that you're putting enough good karma out there in the world, so that when you reincarnate, you have a desirable form.

Unknown: 18:49

Yes. Okay. So pause there. When you hear that, you're right. That can sound like that's what God wants for us to put good things out there, and then He'll bless us. And if we put bad things out there, like there are consequences to sin. Bingo, bango, bongo. Call me a Hindu. No, no. It's like it's just, and I've even heard people be like, I've even heard people be like, yeah, they just like got it wrong, but they got the principle right or whatever. And that is all New Age. Like at your at your find the final form of New Age is like here are the secrets that Jesus understood, which is why he was able to do all the miracles and stuff he did. So you can be like a like Jesus, not just like because he's your Lord and Savior, but you can be like him because you can be him. Like he just understood the way the world worked. The thing that I would point out in what you said, which was a really great summary, is who is at the center of that. So let's start with like, who is it all about? Who is that about? And that is about you reaching your final form, doing what you probably define as good, or based on your worldview, how you want to live and sow your life, so. You can climb the afterlife ladder and be reincarnated, and this is where Christians should feel convicted because we probably agree with that more than we want to admit. A lot of modern preaching, a lot of modern churches, and I've even accidentally had this baked into my sermons that I was like,"Ooh, that I'm leading people astray, not astray. It's it's just incomplete when I'm like, if you want the best life you could ever have, come to Jesus, bro. Like you're gonna be sad and lonely and depressed without Him, and then you're gonna be awesome and great and fun and happy and fulfilled and in community if you accept Jesus. But that is not why Jesus is worthy of our worship is because He's Lord, like He's the King. So I'm not coming before the King like I heard You can make my crops a little bit better, and I heard that like you know You're going to help me out if there's a war. It's like you're the King, and I bow before You because I'm a peasant, and You're the King, and you're worthy of worship, and so I humble myself before you. So, so this is why I said at the beginning, I think Christians should not just write this off because no Christian is going to be like I believe in karma and I'm low key a Hindu, but they might actually preach a man centered gospel that sounds a lot like do good things so you can get good things, do bad things, you are going to get bad things. God and the point of life is to not be punished and to get blessed.

Dave Leake: 21:25

Well, so let let's read the let's read where like one of the best sowing and reaping summaries. So there there is a sort of parallel to karma from the Christian perspective, but it's very different. Here is what Galatians six says, starting in verse seven, do not be deceived. God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. This is agricultural language. What you plant in the ground is what you're going to get. If you sow an apple seed, you get an apple tree, etc. Man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from their flesh will reap destruction. Whoever sows to please the Spirit; from the Spirit will reap eternal life. And then I love I love what it demonstrates this in verse nine and 10. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially those who belong to the family of believers. So here is here is an example. It says you sow into the flesh, into your desires, into what you want, into what makes you happy, but ultimately into sin that separates us from God. You're going to reap destruction. Whoever sows to please the Spirit will reap eternal life. And then, if we sow into doing good at the proper time, we'll reap a harvest, meaning blessing from God, He is the one that gives a blessing and that allows our sin to give us destruction. So it says, therefore, as we have an opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially those who are belong who belong in the family of believers. It feels like it's a similar principle, but from a totally different vantage point. God sees, God judges. If we sow into sin, we're going to reap destruction. If we sow into good, it blesses other people, but also God blesses us and will reap a harvest of righteousness if we don't give up. I love that verse, by the way.

Unknown: 23:13

Yeah, me too. And and the end of Hinduism and sowing and reaping is that you know you die and then you you get rewarded, but that's not what we're attempting to do in Christianity because we are not doing good to earn salvation, aka the end of our life, getting the ultimate reward. We actually admit and know that we're sinners, and that we are deserving of wrath. It's through Christ's atonement on the cross. He took our punishment. He took our guilt and shame. He took what we deserved, and now we're already accepted. Now it informs how we should live, but I'm not banking on at the end of my life. I hope I sowed enough so I can reap enough good. So, like that is the be all end all determining factor for someone that believes in karma fully, and it's not really for us. It's actually out of love, and so we're doing it out of love, not really expecting the reaping. Oftentimes, the reaping even in isn't even in your lifetime. So it's like the principle is you sow, and at the proper time, there will be a reaping that happens, but it's not always. And then I got my big car.

Dave Leake: 24:25

What we're doing is we are working to please God, and ultimately we'll reap a harvest of righteousness, whether it's in this life or in the next. Because there is a difference. God does talk about rewarding those in heaven. Matthew six 633. You know, seek first getting men as righteousness, and all this will be added to as well. Okay, let's move on. Let's jump into yoga. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Unknown: 24:48

Do we have to?

Dave Leake: 24:51

Do you not want to?

Unknown: 24:52

No. No, I do actually. I do actually want to. I just think. Um. I think that I will be less. Brash and bombastic, probably just because I think that. Well, I'll let you set it up, and if it's okay, I actually have like a

Dave Leake: 25:09

sure

Unknown: 25:09

personal story, very recent. Yeah,

Dave Leake: 25:11

well, I mean, let me let me let me give the quick overview.

Unknown: 25:16

Yes,

Dave Leake: 25:17

and and then we can get into it. So let's talk about yoga. Yoga is one of those things that today, obviously, it comes from a different religion, from Hinduism. And no, wait,

Unknown: 25:28

wait, it does. Everyone's like, "Why is he objecting? It's not obvious. So you okay, okay, okay, like not obvious. So obviously, we all know it's like no, literally no. That's well, it

Dave Leake: 25:41

does.

Unknown: 25:41

Okay, it does.

Dave Leake: 25:42

So it comes from Hinduism. It comes from it comes from Buddhism. We'll we'll we'll talk about this in a second. the The question we're obviously going to have is is can you just do yoga, just exercise, or as always religious? But let me talk about what yoga is. It comes from Hinduism. The word yoga means yoke or union, and in Hinduism, yoga is actually union of yourself with a divine Brahmin. Okay, with God, with the universe. The word itself is a theological claim, at least to Hindus. Not saying it's not in general. We'll get there. But so the postures in yoga, they're called asanas, were not developed as fitness originally, they were developed as a spiritual discipline and worship postures aimed at different gods. Now, in our culture, yoga is very popular. There's lots of yoga classes. It may or may not always be attached to Hinduism, but questions that I think we need to address, like it's often it's often tied to

Unknown: 26:43

it's often tied to stretching in the park,

Dave Leake: 26:47

right?

Unknown: 26:48

Maybe sometimes they bring in some like a calmness practices. They're not often, if ever at all, making you say like hail Shiva in between breaths, which is probably what your like most Hinduism yoga stretches poses. If you went to you know India and you did yoga there, they would probably have you like chant and repeat and empty your mind. But your average yoga right now is stretches, holding poses, working on flexibility, and then maybe sometimes they incorporate like peace, some good. Well, I think the one music.

Dave Leake: 27:22

Yeah, I do think the one thing that would be worth also considering with yoga classes is whether they introduce mantras, because sometimes mantras. Okay, so like, for example, with with the class, sometimes they'll bow and they'll say Namaste, right? In in yoga, Namaste is sort of as peace, bro.

Unknown: 27:42

Come on,

Dave Leake: 27:43

right? But the word I believe actually refers to the divine in me bows to the divine in you. It's this acknowledgement of us all connecting with Brahman, with the the God of the universe, the God inside of all of us. All of this to say, yoga is not as simple as just an exercise, and I think that it's worth untangling. George, you recently had a mission. Yeah, yeah, became a hot topic.

Unknown: 28:12

Oh man, I I feel I don't want to make this just the yoga podcast, but I while you're talking, I have four questions for Dave, and then like three stories, and so keep me on rails because I I want to be honest. So four or five years ago, I had a friend that was very against yoga, and my opinion was I think this guy is being a little zealous, and like I get it and I appreciate it, but like I'm not there now. I'm not doing any yoga. Neither is my wife Alicia. We're not really like yoga people, but I was sort of like, all right, like I, I guess technically it, it, it, it could be, yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, that's not how it's really used. And the way I was thinking of it, this is a bad illustration, but I remember when I was teaching at private Christian school and middle schoolers, the coolest thing to do for anything was to dab. You know what I mean? It's like you remember you would dab, and I was like, yeah, yeah, lean and dab. I remember a mom coming up to me and be like,"Do you know what a dab is? I was like, and I had like seen it on Urban Dictionary, I was like, okay, yeah, technically, it's like a drug reference. She's like, it's liquid marijuana. These kids are, and they're like, wham, you know, they're hitting because a dab of marijuana, when you take it, if you take too much, you cough. You would cough into your sleeve, and so that's where the dab came from. But in my mind, I was like, lady, I get it. Okay, so maybe our mission statement is the school I'm at shouldn't be like we dab on the devil, but it's like, but it's like, bro, it's moved, and in common parlance, the dab is just a dance move or like a pose, right? So, so I was like, okay, and if you do that for everything, what does it really mean? What's its original origin? I was feeling like chill, like that's not what people are doing. They're not actually worshiping. They're not actually saying the divine in me. It's like white girls in a park. You know what I mean? Like, what are we talking about? I don't know if I'm there anymore. So I have some sensitivity in this regard. Like I have a soft spot for people that are where I probably was, and it's like I don't want to dunk on everybody that like just did yoga last week, and we're like, you have you have demons in you now, like you know, because it's like okay, I understand where they're coming from. An argument that I've heard made, and that I made, and I'm curious, can we just like spar a little bit on this is what's the difference between doing yoga, which technically has some roots, and like Christmas, which like you put up a tree in your home, you like why are you putting a tree in your home? It's like are you celebrating the winter solstice? Are you celebrating the pagan all the pagan stuff surrounding it, or are you celebrating the birth of Jesus? So it's like, can that be? I guess the question is like, can yoga be redeemed? Can a Christmas tree, a pine tree in your home, be redeemed? Can Halloween? Maybe we do a Halloween episode right now. No, but like, I think that's how I was feeling, and I felt like I had the ability to decide. Again, I wasn't even doing yoga, but it felt like, come on, that's not really how people mean it, and so people's intent determines everything. What are some of your thoughts when I say that? I know we didn't like practice this and run this through, so it might be clunky. I can tell you where I landed, and where I am where I am now, and the journey that that was. But I'm I'm curious if that's someone's thoughts. What you would say, Dave?

Dave Leake: 31:45

That's a great question. I think so. Okay, maybe I just state my opinion, and then we can work back to answer your question. I would say this. I think that everything that has spiritual, like, and anything that that can be a worship practice, practice we should be careful of. So, okay, there is there are all kinds of examples of things having religious roots that now are not necessarily religious. We were even talking about these, how like bridesmaids were from an ancient tradition in a wedding where they thought demons would come to haunt the bride, but if there were bridesmaids, they might be confused. They would confuse the demon as to which one was actually the the bride to be and which one. Some stupid

Unknown: 32:30

demons, by the way. Just yeah, right. But clueless,

Dave Leake: 32:33

right? Well, but but so maybe that's where that practice came from originally. It's obviously not now a religious or superstitious practice to have bridesmaids for it's like a sign of solidarity and and friendship and things like that. Now, so obviously things can change meanings over time in cultures. I think with with with yoga, I my concern and my I don't know that I have a firm stance. My concern is: is it closer to like tarot cards? Is it closer to like well, but I'm just playing a game. I'm just playing. Yeah, it's okay. Yeah, that's your good point. Put something else in blast. There's a there was a popular video game that used tarot cards when you play it. I'm like, do we want to play this game? Like, do is it fine to play this game? Like, do we want to have things where we're mixing clearly witchcrafty occulty things? Which I I would say using yoga as a worship practice is does not mix even a little bit with Christianity. I'll just like even where is it? I had a verse I had pulled up. Okay, First Corinthians 1021 says you cannot drink the cup of the Lord, referring to communion, and the cup of demons too. You cannot have a part both in the Lord's table and the table of demons. You can't mix. Yeah, mixing isn't isn't even an option. I'm not necessarily saying that yoga could not be just a physical exercise. I don't think the devil has a claim on every stretch. Like when we would do park workouts, like we would do like downward dog, but it would be to stretch your core or whatever. It's not. It's not like we're doing. We weren't even doing yoga. It's just a stretch that is a common stretch in yoga. So, like, I don't think every like the devil can't just be like mine, mine, mine. So you,

Unknown: 34:28

yeah, you can stretch. You can stretch, and maybe some people would be like, "I'm just stretching. Then gotcha. I'm just stretching. Here's here's at least where I came, and and the journey that I kind of went on. I first needed to realize that life exists outside of America, and that just because I had limited knowledge of how things actually are in the rest of the world doesn't make me like it's it's it's not like it's only true of what's true in America. And I have learned and realized people are not just like because I don't know a lot of people that. Are actually worshiping the winter solstice at Christmas, like the Christmas tree. They're not like, yeah, dude. People every day, right now at the time of recording, are worshiping Brahma, Shiva, and Vishnu right now through yoga, and so it becomes harder to be like it's not that when it literally is, when it 100% is that, and then it's like, well, I don't mean it that way. Okay, here was the thing that I thought about that I was like, it was the the thing like the squeaky wheel I couldn't get rid of, is if I found out there are a bunch of atheists that were gathering. I don't know an atheist convention, so they're like not on my team, right? I'm on Jesus' team, and they randomly liked a worship song. Ah, our God is an awesome God; He reigns. They just love that song, and I found out they were singing it. I'd be like, "Oh, that's actually so sick! And they're like, "Trust me, we don't mean we like the tune, we like the sound, we like the way it builds. It means nothing to us. I'm telling you, we that we are completely disconnected. If I walked by their little atheist building and I heard them sing it, I'd be like, I know God's getting glory from that. Even from the mouths of people that are like, we promise it's not. I would be like, Come on, like yes, yeah. I would be outside singing because it's like they would actually God would still be receiving worship from the mouths of heathens. I am not convinced that demons are not pumped when we are. Hey, just repeat this phrase really quick, okay? Even unawarely, I do think that we are coming into agreement with some things, and so I had a kid that played hockey at Pitt, and he was like,"Bro, my team does yoga for stretches. What do you think I should do? And I and we I asked him a few questions. I was like,"Do they ever have you repeat anything? No. Do they put on music? No. So it's just stretching. Yeah, we just call it yoga. I was like, "Hey, I would pray about it. You got to follow what you feel conviction on. But I think it's okay if your team has shorthand for a few stretches before you hit the ice, called yoga, yeah, maybe see what the Holy Spirit tells you. I think you can engage with those stretches. He sent me a list of ones they did. Not all of them were even yoga poses; they were just calling yoga. So he he did them. He said he would pray while he was doing it, and I I feel like that is maybe a meat sacrifice to idols? You got to talk to the Holy Spirit about kind of a thing. But when our our missions team went was going to India, and I can't share all the details just to protect the workers that are there. Yeah, yeah, no, well that that as well. The team was allowed to get into and access a part of the country because they were going under the guise of tourists. Because they were going under the guise of tourists, one of the tourist activities they were going to have them do is yoga. And the team was like, "What the frick do we do? Like, how do we handle this? And I was like, "Golly, dude! I called you. I was like,"Ugh, and and so I sat the whole team down. And here's sort of what I said. I talked to the people that were leading it, and I was like,"Hey, our team will feel very uncomfortable if this is like religious in nature at all, and so we're going to opt out of it, and they threw out to us, "Hey, what if we just walk them through a couple of stretches? Not religious, not worship. We won't even play any music. And I was like, "Hey, each person has to decide how comfortable they are with that. And what's really an awesome blessing is they actually canceled it, so no one had to decide. They just decide,"Hey, we don't have time on the schedule. We're like, yes. I will say it is a hard thing to totally wrap my mind around. But I would say something. I would say to old Jordan is you are a bit too confident, and you should be a lot more curious, and at least talk to the Holy Spirit about it. Because there are ways you can connect with your neighbors, and there are ways that you can stretch your body without actually having to submit to the process of yoga. And I think that it at least should be highly considered because it, no matter what you say, it's worship. Last thing, last thing I'll say, I actually, when I was in India, talked to a guy who was saved out of Hinduism, so he was totally into it. And I said, "Would you ever do yoga? Even if he was like,"Absolutely not. I was like,"Oh, hey, let me finish. Even if it was just stretches, he was like, "It it can't just be stretches. I was like, "Okay, but what about? He's like,"Sure, you can stretch your quads and hamstrings, and if that's the optimal stretch, but I would never do it because I I used to worship that way. I was saved from that, and I know how deep it actually is. That was really convicting to me. So personally, Dave, I will never do yoga because I think it is too close to the demonic. Personally, that's

Dave Leake: 39:50

so good. Okay, I'm not even going to say anything else on that because we got a few other things to get through, and I thought you would just my bad. No, you hit it perfectly. I hope I gave an answer.

Unknown: 39:58

I don't want. I don't want to give a. Yes, maybe no. I don't want to give a passive thing, so so I hope I was clear enough. But I just I do think for your average American, the reality of what it is, we just don't know it, and we we haven't ever seen that.

Dave Leake: 40:12

I agree. Okay, just just to end on that note, this is a common scripture we use for something like this: Romans 12 two. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is-His good, pleasing, perfect will. We actually can't understand what God's will is for our lives if we're aligning ourselves too much with other religious practices, with other ways of thinking. I think that yoga can be dangerous in that way. Another thing that can be though is too much new age. Yeah. So things like this, okay. Yeah, like I just have to get the energy waves and the frequencies in my body to be right, and that's like with natural fibers because God made natural fibers this way, and that's with aligning my biochemistry, and that's making sure that the rhythms and the frequencies, and you know, like it's too much high in my head, and or it's too. I should probably the opposite. Too much low in my feet needs to be too. My rhythms need to be higher. My frequencies. My. I don't even know

Unknown: 41:08

about any of that, bro. I don't even. I mean, that is that is that sound to me like my like radars. Like yeah, chat were cooked. Like this is psycho. Like there's there's no way. But but I've heard some things that are like, "Hey, a lot of religious programming has taught you to bypass your body, and you should be a lot more in tune with your body. Your body tells you so much, and it's so helpful. Honestly, that sounds cool until I really I didn't buy the car and sign quickly. The used car salesman was moving me along too quickly. I was like,"Here's the thing, though. Then me and my body become the ultimate source of truth. Like I actually don't even need really scripture. It's like, what am I feeling? I'm actually feeling disconnected from this moment. So it must be not genuine. This church must not be real. I I have all the answers within me. Like wait wait wait and now your radar's going off your ears are burning you're like oh wait that's crap but it starts at something that at least feels believable

Dave Leake: 42:09

yeah well so one of those things okay I probably can't speak as an authority on this but this is popular even with Christian Christian influencers whether or not they're I don't know maybe it's just this one thing they have that's weird but like when you're introducing, so the there's this theory that like I think also it might have like you know baseball players wear certain wristbands or certain yeah

Unknown: 42:30

yeah yeah I know where you're going yes

Dave Leake: 42:31

I I'm not saying that those things are wrong to wear I'm not saying they're religious but like there's this new age type of thinking about energies and frequencies and the the magnetic energy of the world and and of your body, and you want to have it like the more harmonious it is, the better you are, and the better it it has to do with manifesting. It has to do with with like what you believe. It has to do through biofuel. Oh my gosh!

Unknown: 42:55

Oh my gosh! Yeah, but manifesting even in of itself is hijacked. Okay, so first of all, yeah, crystals is huge. When Alicia and I were in Arizona, like we wanted to just hike, and people were like, "Crystals for your hike, and I was like,"Repent and believe the gospel. Get out. No, I I didn't do that. But it was like it was like, golly, it's so it's like oh these things. The thing is, what are you putting your faith in? So if you're putting your faith in your little rock, so Jimmy can hit a home run. It's like that rock isn't like okay. Do I put my faith in these crystals for me to feel peace, or do I put my faith in these tarot cards, or in my body, or in the Holy Spirit who lives inside of me? See, so the the the danger is a misplaced trust on these things that we think are gonna save us. I I preached a text about this, where there's the guy who's paralyzed at the pool of Bethsaida, and he's like, oh, and he's talking to Jesus. He's like, oh, when an angel comes down, it's kind of weird. And they were having syncretism. They were mixing pagan practices with with Jewish spirituality. Oh, when the angel come down and stirs up the waters, then the next person in there gets saved because I'm paralyzed. I can't get in there. And what I need, he's looking at Christ, being like, "I'll tell you what I need. I need you to toss me in there, and then I can be healed. And it's like, what you need is the person of Jesus, not the thing you think you need to be well, so it's like I need a better counselor. I need better rocks or crystals or to align my chakras. Or I need you know therapy. I need to be more. I need to eat healthier. I need all these things you tell yourself I need. And truthfully, as lame and Sunday school and boring as this is, the thing you actually need is is is often standing right in front of you, and sometimes you're whining to him about the things you think you need. It's like it's Jesus, and Jesus is like, "What do you want? Do you want to get well? And he heals the guy, not the pool, not the angels, not the I'm the first one in some weird pagan bullcrap. It was like Jesus Christ has the. Power to give you the life that you want and you desire and you feel like you need, it comes from alignment with Him, not with crystals or your chakras. So, so I think it's it's the danger is misplaced trust in the wrong crap. Yes, we believe in science. Sure, we can learn more things about how to eat healthier and be healthier and be more alive. Like I'm, I'm fine with that and I'm down with that. But when you put your whole like, if you're thinking about that and tracking your numbers and girls tracking their cycles and like if you're doing that more than you're praying and seeking God for the breakthrough you think you need, chat, you got it wrong. Am I making any sense? Let me

Dave Leake: 45:39

jump in because I'm talking about something even a little different than just that, no, no, no, no, no. It was good, and agree. I'll co-sign everything you just said. But there is also that. So there's this mixing that I've seen happen. So, like, I'll give an example. In in in the Old Testament, I don't remember fifth is in Exodus or it's no Exodus. Whether it's in Leviticus or Numbers, I think it's Leviticus. There are instructions about the kinds of garments that people should be wearing. There's instructions about all kinds of stuff, yeah, mold and and what to do if you're if the ox that you own personally gores another animal by accident or you got to know it.

Unknown: 46:19

I got to know that

Dave Leake: 46:20

it's it's all this stuff, and it was important at the time because they lived in in pre Jesus time, where the way you establish the covenant with God was by living according to the rules laid out in the law and offering sacrifices, animal sacrifices, whenever you know whenever you sinned, as a as a looking ahead to what Jesus was going to do with his final victory on the cross. One of the things they talk about is like you know, make sure you wear garments of of linen and stay away from these kind of garments and don't mix the fibers. I've heard people do these things with like, well, the reason God gave those instructions is because He knew the energy waves of the earth were like it's like those, and and when you when you mix it, it's bad for your skin. It's bad for like. I just think it's dangerous when we start bringing in energies and frequencies and vibrations, which are not an inherently Christian framework whatsoever, and mix them with Old Testament scripture. Your faith is more

Unknown: 47:16

in that than all that. Your faith that you are putting too much faith, and I think that often the power you give something is the power that it has. So, like, so like, okay, if I'm coming to this clothing store because you're gonna help me to like, I'm actually giving you power over me to some extent. Or if I'm living in fear, like, oh my gosh, I don't have money to buy these types of things, or I just need a spiritual retreat or I need that that fear is also faith because what is faith? It's it's believing in the power that it has even before you see it.

Dave Leake: 47:51

But sure, but sure. If I okay, let me let me just I'll throw this out to you. Can you put too much faith in a doctor?

Unknown: 47:58

Yes. What do you you think you can?

Dave Leake: 48:00

No, of course you can. But I'm saying I don't think this is just too much faith. I think this is mixing other religious. So it's like it's like any amount of faith is too much faith in a tarot card. Like like there there's there is an appropriate amount of faith where you can put in a doctor and then there's too much faith. But I'm saying the syncretism part is like no, let's not mix energies at all. Okay, any amount of faith in energies is like the reason I'm

Unknown: 48:26

okay. That's a good point. I think the reason I'm saying that though is because we are learning. Like I'm going to get it wrong, and you can tell I clearly don't understand this. But like I think that we are learning that in order to make more money, big companies have made shortcuts in the food and yes, in clothing. And so there probably is some validity to like, hey, let's get 100% cotton, but not because the energy. It's like it's yes, yes, because polyester is. You understand what I'm saying? So I yeah yeah I was microplastics.

Dave Leake: 48:59

My wife is super into avoiding microplastics. Well, look at that syncretism.

Unknown: 49:03

Look at that syncretism. No, no, yeah. So not

Dave Leake: 49:05

because of the energy frequencies of the clothing. Yes, like like it's it's the beliefs behind these things that are like we got to be really careful of mixing things. Can I can I can I throw one more out to you, George? Since we only because we don't have that much more as

Unknown: 49:19

much time as we want. Wait, wait. All right. Say, I have, I have a a main idea that I think will summarize all of it. But throw out the next one to me.

Dave Leake: 49:30

Great. Okay. Well, I was going to say another one that's similar is, thank you, universe. You know, oh, I'm just so glad because the universe aligned things and and you heard this before? There's actually this actually gets mixed into Christianity as well, where it's almost like without thinking about it, like we believe in Jesus, but we also believe that the universe aligns things for

Unknown: 49:54

us. Yeah, and and that that is a false gospel. Like you are not living in the. The new covenant. If you are putting your faith and trust in Jesus Christ, but then also the universe, that's actually a polytheistic worldview. You have multiple gods, and you have multiple people that you're praying to and believing. And I think the danger, though, and we do not, we definitely don't have time to go into all of this. But I'll just throw this out to any listener. I think a huge danger is many Christians would not say thank you, universe. That's not something that might roll off their tongue. But actually, if you're you're not careful, you might take what New Age people say about the universe and also say it about God. So you wouldn't say thank you, universe. But actually, the way you they talk about oh well, what what's put out there that's for me is going to come back to me, and you know everything happens for a reason. And these isms that sound biblical and kind of not-that's where syncretism happens. And the thing I wanted to say earlier-it's-it's perfect here too-is I think the problem with the church in Colossae, where they they were worshiping Earth, Wind, Fire, and Cool in the Gang. Apparently, that the the the problem with them is they were way, way, way, way too close to the culture, way too close to the ethos and worldview and thought of so it of what the modern day Greeks and Romans were thinking. So syncretism was easy because they were too close to the culture. A lot of what we're saying, Dave, comes from being chronically online, comes from loving the world too much, listening to secular artists, but at least they don't swear. But they're espousing their their religious worldviews or their philosophies, and you come, you get too close to that, and then you don't realize that it's a false gospel, a false god. So I think one of the the things I would throw out to anyone listening is, yeah, you might not say thank you, universe, but I I would say you are in danger when you are way too in love with the culture, when you like the the music of today, the all the actors of today, all the movies of today, the the what's who's who what's hot pop culture too much you get too close to the culture I mean and and this wasn't new age of me but I allowed for so many unhealthy worldviews to exist because I liked trap music too much I was like yeah you know I love Jesus and your boy likes Drake rip in the chat for that boy by the way moment of silence, but like I, I would say stupid stuff like that because I thought it was cute, and I realized like I was way too in love with culture, and it started to syncretism of different beliefs, but also like the the devil's plan for my life started to get infused with God's, and and they're not they're not compatible. They're not

Dave Leake: 52:41

compatible. No, they're not compatible. Culture, you know, culture is not secular. Culture is really not compatible with following Jesus closely. No, you really can't. With cultural Christianity, where you're not all in, absolutely. But bringing in culture and these, because I don't think we always think of them as religious. We think of the mass culture. Okay, maybe you've thought about this. So we're talking about the the idea of the universe. You know, the the word vibe is really vibration, which is that same like we're talking about the right vibrations, good vibrate, good vibes. Like we're talking about. I mean, I say that, so

Unknown: 53:17

maybe I'm too like that whole monolog just like back at me because I'm like, like the

Dave Leake: 53:24

vibes. But but that's that's what I mean. The vibes are good. The vibrations is what actually that comes from. That that I'm not saying that I wouldn't use that word, but I'm saying we should realize the world we're swimming in. Yeah, like so so we talk about the the the universe. I'll stick on this for a second. You know, thing about the universe is the universe gives without demand demanding repentance. It's like an impersonal God, right? It doesn't. We don't need holiness. There's no covenant. There's no cross. There's no throne. It gives, but it doesn't demand repentance. That's what the secular world wants. They want a cosmic force that will give them what they want, but it does. They don't actually have to submit. They don't have to repent. They don't have to surrender. And we can sometimes incorporate that syncretistically into Christianity, where we superimpose the universe over Jesus. He's all love. He just wants to give. He already gave himself. He's running after me. He'll never reject me, which is all like yes, yes, yes. But after, but he still demands repentance that we come to him on his terms, that we lay ourselves down at the foot of the cross, that we surrender our sin, that we surrender our right to define good and evil, what we decide we're going to practice and not practice. And so, I think that one of the things that we have to use to divide distinguishing between spirits, universe, vibrations, energies, karma practices, like whatever these kind of things are that that we are allowing for the secular culture to infiltrate. It does not go well with Christianity. Christianity is not a great mix and drink where you just like I'll take a little bit of. And a little bit of that, and stir it all in the pot, and it's going to make a good soup. That actually just becomes a different religion that Jesus does not accept. Well, and that that is

Unknown: 55:09

that is what is popular at Pitt. It's like I actually really like the meditation of Buddhists, and I love some of the morals of Christianity. Don't love how he views you know these certain topics. So okay, we'll we'll take that out, and it's like a buffet of choose your own, but that that lacks an acknowledgement of is anyone right or is everyone wrong, and that puts you at the scene of like so. There's no objective truth there, like because because all of them claim to be exclusively correct, and then who ends up being God? You you do because you get to pick your little buffet, you're the one with the tongs, saying one crap

Dave Leake: 55:44

manifesting your future for yourself by speaking. Okay, speaking it into existence through manifesting is a weird new age, and they

Unknown: 55:53

hijack that and say it's faith because when we decree and declare healing in Jesus' name, that's the same as like putting it out there, and I am I'm manifesting my own reality. I will get the job. I will get the job. So that sounds like faith. That sounds like faith, doesn't it? Like that job is for me. This love, this boyfriend is for me. Like that's faith, but it's not because again, it puts you in control. So the Bible says, if you ask anything in my name according to my will, then it will be done. So we're actually looking like is healing in God's will? Yes, it is. Now we speak it out with faith, not faith in ourselves or our idea or what I want. Yeah, that's what I feel like doing today. Bump that! Like I have faith in the Word of God and what it says. I come into a submission to that mug, submission to that. I come under it, and then I'm like, "All right, I say yes, and then the Bible tells us Jesus says,"Amen, and then so be it. Manifestation is hmm, what can I think of? Because I'm God, because I can pick and choose my own religiosity, because I can, you know what? I think this job is. I'm gonna,

Dave Leake: 56:56

I'm gonna manifest what I want out into the universe, and it's gonna happen.

Unknown: 57:00

No one would ever say I'm God, but if you if you do that crap, you think you're God and you want to be God. You want to be God so bad.

Dave Leake: 57:09

Exactly. Okay, my my family could walk in at any minute and disrupt. You gotta

Unknown: 57:16

stop doing that, Dave. Come on.

Dave Leake: 57:20

You know, someday I will have a podcast studio that is not also my living room where my kids play, but that day is not today. And so, in order to make sure that we don't get in the middle and then get cut off by a screaming or several screaming little children, yes, Lord, we will we will go ahead and wrap it up here. But we would love it if you want to comment. If you have questions, if you have things for us to talk about in the future, Jordan will be on a whole lot more. Well, we can tackle other things like this. I can tackle it with other guests as well. We have those on too. But comment your questions, comment your thoughts. And as always, one of the things that you can do that really helps us to kind of spread the word is to leave us a five star review, whatever platform you're on. And if you do it on on what is it Apple Podcasts specifically, we will see your name. We'll give you a shout out. So leave us a review, like and subscribe on YouTube, share this with a friend. All of it really helps. So again, thank you so much for joining the Rethink Rebuy podcast. Thank you, Jordan, for being our special guest once again, and for whoever you are listening. I hope you have an amazing day. We'll catch you guys again next time.